Trying to conceive, infertility and IVF

My experience of 5 years of infertility, two failed rounds of IVF and finally a pregnancy.

We talk discuss:

  • Starting the journey to be a Momma
  • Medical investigations
  • Smiling through the pain
  • Low ovarian reserve
  • Perimenopausal
  • Everyone is pregnant but you
  • Health and Fitness Regimen
  • IVF 
  • Two lines on a pregnancy test



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Read the full show transcript here

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Intro Hook: My dreams of motherhood just started disintegrating in front of me. But I wasn’t prepared to give up on it. I just had a real strong feeling inside that I was going to be a mom and I could almost see this child that was out there in the ether waiting to come to me and through me, but all of this medical stuff wasn’t working in my favor. And it’s like everybody I know seems to be getting pregnant.

Hey, curlfriends welcome back to the curl squads Curl Power podcast. With me, your host, Zoe Fox, I hope you’re having a blessed week so far. In this episode, we are going to be digging into the fertility journey, what it’s like to desperately want a baby but to struggle to conceive. I’m going to be sharing a little bit of my five year mission to try to have a baby. And all the challenges that came with that. Before we jump into the episode, I just like to start by shouting out Carly. I think it’s Carly because I had a sneak peek at the email. And to James as well who have both really kindly dropped me a tip via the buy me a coffee link, which is buy me a forward slash Carl squad. Yeah, man, I truly appreciate it. Because you know, the podcast is ad free. I haven’t got any sponsorship, I’m running it off my own steam. And I’m just really grateful to be seen and to be appreciated. And what’s been really moving over the last couple of weeks is the feedback that I’ve been getting from some people with regards to the podcast and how it’s made them feel. So people are saying they’re feeling more positive and grounded. People are feeling seen and understood. And that’s all I could wish for. Honestly, just to know that it’s connecting with people, it’s leaving people better than they were when they started listening to it is just, that means a lot, you know, it’s very encouraging for me. So I’m going to keep on pushing through, because that’s what I’m here to do. So if you’re wondering how you can support little independent podcasters. Like me, I’ve just mentioned the buy me a coffee link. That’s one option. We also have a little bit of merchandise over on the curl squad store. We’ve got our curl sweatshirts, which are available to buy on the website, which are really great quality. And I even sold the labels in with my fair hands. And there’s a kid’s range as well. So you can check that all out on the curl squad forward slash shop. But in terms of ways that you can help without having to exchange your hard earned cash. Like just sharing the content would be great. telling a friend about the podcast would be appreciated. So Yemen, just a thank you for your support. Thank you for your kind words. Thank you for encouragement, and thank you for your ear. All the relevant links will be listed in the show notes as per usual. So before we get started, I’m curious actually, because I want to know, where are you listening? When you’re listening into the podcast. When I listen to podcasts, I tend to be either sort of, I say go for a walk like those days are pretty much over now going for a casual walk with my disability is not something that I really do anymore. But I used to love going for long walks and listening to podcasts. But now quite often when I’m doing bits around the house when I’m sitting, doing the washing up, I say sitting because I’ve got a perch install because of my spinal cord injury. I can’t stand and bend over a sink anymore. So I sit down. I’m not just lazy. Yeah, so where are you listening to the podcast from if you’re on social media, take a little selfie and at me and let me know where you’re at. We can slide it into my emails. at info at the curl squad. Let’s see where you’re listening from. That’d be really cool, actually, just to get a little bit of engagement and see where my people emarat So in the last episode of the podcast, I spoke about getting married. And for many people, the next natural step after marriage is the pitter patter of tiny feet. I always knew I wanted to be a mom. I love kids. I’ve got big kid energy, really. And yeah, I’ve always dreamt about being a big mama hen with just a whole brood of children. I sort of thought I’d have like maybe four or five kids and I could just see myself, you know, sitting around a big table with a mixture of girls and boys. Always having a pot of food on the stove. And yeah, just being this big mama hen. So once we were married, the focus was then let’s make this happen. Let’s start this journey to Becoming a mama. And I’ll be totally honest, I never imagined that I’d have any trouble conceiving, just didn’t consider it. I just thought, you know, it’d be wham bam, Thank you, ma’am. And well, our two lines on the pregnancy test. But it didn’t work out that way.

Now, I’ve been guilty myself in the past of saying to people, oh, you’re going to have your baby, you’re going to have a baby or when you’re going to start having kids. And once you’ve been through an infertility journey, those words will never leave your lips again. And it’s difficult because you know, a lot of these sort of comments are actually really well meaning. But the truth is, you never really know what someone’s going through. I remember it got to a point where, you know, even strangers in the street would make comments about, you know, like, you got to start having kids yet. And I’m like, I’ve been trying for five years, do you not, I mean, and sometimes I end up in tears on the street, because people don’t even realize what they’re saying or what they’re doing. But when you’ve almost lost your soul, in trying to bring forward a life, and it’s just not working out, the tiniest little thing can be really, really difficult. The well meaning comments turned into nightmares. So as I said, you know, I never envisaged any issues in in conceiving, you know, the weeks turn into months, the months start turning into years, and you’re like, what’s going on? You know, something’s not right. So, we decided to go to the doctor, and speak to the doctor about the fact that, you know, we’re trying to conceive, nothing’s happening, any advice kind of thing. So once we started the process of going to the doctor, then we had a referral at to have some tests done. The first procedure that I had to have was called a high cozy. And that was, wasn’t a pleasant experience. So the high cozy procedure is a baseline ultrasound scan, using a vaginal probe, I’m just reading this from a medical website to assess the uterus and the ovaries. And then you have a speculum to see the cervix, which is all well and good, if you can get the thing in. So I’m warning you now, you know, some of this might be a bit TMI, but this is the reality of what women have to go through. So if you’re not ready for this level of a conversation, you might want to switch off now and wait for next week’s episode, which actually probably isn’t going to be much better, because then next week, I’m going to be talking about pregnancy, and birth and trauma. But this is the reality of what women are dealing with, you know, and I was working full time, and you try it, you know, you’re supposed to act like everything’s fine and function as though everything’s normal. When you’re going through a living hell, you know, a very few people really understand what that’s like, unless they’ve walked in those shoes. You’re supposed to turn up at work because I was working at the bank at this point. And function like a normal human being after you’ve just had a very intensive, intimate, probing. Honestly, women, we are amazing beings. You know, we’re amazing beings. When I think about the things that I’ve been through in my life as a woman, the struggles and we’re expected to smile and crack on with life as though you know, we just need to suck it up and carry on. But I want you to know that I see you. I see you because life isn’t easy. And I’m sure the mandem have got their own issues as well. But I’m speaking as a woman who knows what it’s like to go through these womanly issues. It’s difficult. It’s difficult to keep smiling, it’s difficult to keep functioning, but still, we continue you know, with day to day. So I have this high cosy procedure, the first nurse comes in attempts it, she struggles has to call in someone else. They’re like, I’m sorry, this isn’t usually this gift. This difficult, but we’re having some problems accessing the you know, the area that they needed to get this catheter in through. We need to call a nurse specialist. Another nurse comes through. So I’ve got my legs trussed up in this metal, you know, steer up thing. Whilst there Rogen and Rogen about and it’s painful. I’m just breathing through it and they’re like you okay? Are you okay? And I’m like, Yeah, fine. Honestly, the amount of times when I think through the stuff that I’ve been through, and I’ve just smiled through the pain, honestly, I feel emotional and sad for myself. As I think about it now, because I’ve been through some scary stuff, you know, through some real scary stuff with no choice but to just walk, smile through gritted teeth as tears fall down my eyes and off my cheeks.

So prior to before having this hycosy procedure, I had heard of other instances where women who had been struggling to conceive had gone and had this high cozy procedure, which is you they flush some sort of dye stuff through it. And some people have found success after just having a high cosy. So I was optimistic, as I always am. But yeah, it didn’t actually help. But one thing that did become clear through some of this testing is that I have low ovarian reserve, and that it was decided that I was actually Peri menopausal. So at this point, I’m like, you know, early 30s, to be told that I’m perimenopause, all my dreams of motherhood just started disintegrating in front of me. But I wasn’t prepared to give up on it. I just had a real strong feeling inside that I was going to be a mom and I could almost see this child that was out there in the ether waiting to come to me and through me, but all of this medical stuff wasn’t working in my favor. And it’s like, everybody I know, seems to be getting pregnant. I see people having babies. And then I’d see them having their second child, and I’m still there trying to have my first and every time you hear the news that somebody’s pregnant, it just sort of breaks your heart a little bit more. I was always happy for them. But there was always a sadness within me. And it became actually quite difficult to hear the news of pregnancy is because it just reminded you that, you know, I’m still struggling. I’m like, what kind of a woman am I? If I can’t even conceive a child. And then you know, we’d be going to parties and family parties, and you know, everyone’s there with their kids. And we’ve been married a few years now and what still no kid and it was like, people start looking at you a little bit differently. I mean, whether they do or whether they don’t, I don’t know. But you feel like people are kind of aware now that you know that you haven’t had a baby yet. So, at this point, I’m just throwing myself into optimum health. I’m hitting the gym hard. I’m in the best physical shape. Actually, I’ve been in for forever. I’m feeling strong. I’m feeling healthy. I’m a vegan by now because I was so mindful about everything that I was consuming. We were eating as much organic stuff as possible. I was doing my smoothies with all my spirulina, my maca, all of the all of the superfood powders, I was doing yoga, hot yoga, you know, doing what I could work, sweat out any toxins, I was really trying to just get my body to be the most welcoming environment to host new life, you know, I was doing everything I could liters and liters of water, you know, blue breeze, just honestly, anything that I could do anything that I read, that would help. I was doing it. I tried acupuncture, which was, you know, quite relaxing, but it didn’t help at the time. And all of this stuff costs money, you know, all of these supplements, all of these yoga sessions. All of these are Chinese medicine. I went to go and see a Chinese herbalist who prescribed me some medicine is bags of leaves, and sticks and stuff that are boiled up into this brown broth, which was just work. Honestly, I couldn’t stomach it. I was in my kitchen, holding my nose down in it go, Look, try not to taste it. It was so strong, it made me heave. I was just doing whatever I could to try and make this baby happen. But it wasn’t happening. So we decided to embark upon the IVF route. Now, for anybody who’s been through it, like I’m sending you so much love, I don’t think people really understand what that is like as a process. Now, the success rates for IVF aren’t actually that good. I think women can see success rates of around 20 to 35% per cycle, which isn’t a great deal is it? And plus, you know, at this point, I’m sort of getting into my mid 30s, which is also lowering the risk. I think even at this point now I’m considered a geriatric patient in terms of fertility. So yeah, we went down the IVF route, which was so invasive, and honestly, you don’t even realize what women have to go through. Again, this is going to be a little bit TMI for some, but, you know, you basically get probed with a big sort of dildo cam, which is what I called it,

which I had to go in and and have done every day they want to check the state of your ovaries. There’s different types of IVF, the short protocol and the long protocol. So I know for the first protocol, they put my ovaries to sleep, and then you know, you’ve got to give yourself all these injections to try and stimulate your ovaries to produce all these eggs. Then you have to go through an egg kill Action. I mean, I’m really summarizing this, I’m not getting too graphic. But trust me when I say it’s so invasive. And what you don’t realize is just how many opportunities there are for this thing to fail. It’s like you’re in a hurdle race. And there’s so many opportunities to fall at each hurdle. So the first thing you’re trying to do is, can you stimulate enough eggs to grow? Once you’ve got the eggs, you retrieve the eggs. It’s like, can we get these eggs to fertilize? And every step you’re just hoping and praying. And, you know, it’s like, walking on a tightrope of emotional stability, because failing at any point is just going to be so devastating. I think the first sense of failure I had was when we discovered that there were only like, two eggs that they were able to fertilize. So we ended up with two embryos. And we were like, Okay, well, you know, twos better than not. And I heard results of some women having 12, and all of this sort of stuff. And I’m like, it only takes one it only takes one. So that very quickly became my mantra, it only takes one embryo, it only takes one embryo. So once you’ve gone through the procedure of having the eggs removed, then you’ve got to wait a few days to see whether you know, the sperm and the eggs create an embryo when then it’s is the embryo dividing in the way that you’d expect it to. So the hospital call you up and give you updates, and I’m sorry, this embryos died. And honestly, it felt like that was my child. It might sound silly, but when this is the closest, you’ve got to conceiving a child with the man that you love, and to be told that that embryo dies, that’s really difficult emotionally to, to process. So at the end of the first round of IVF, we were left with two embryos. So the embryos also have the potential to split. So that could, in theory, have men ended up with quads, because you could have one embryo that splits into twins, you could have the other embryo that gets splits into twins, that don’t encourage you to try and you know, have multiple pregnancies, just because of the risks that can be involved with that. But I would just like just put them all in, do you not I mean, I have for our for babies, I’ll have 10 babies, whatever it takes. So they put in the two embryos. And then once you’ve had the embryos inserted, I literally felt like I was a china doll. You know, just really careful about my movement. They’re like, just act as normal sort of thing. But I’m like, oh, you know, just wanting to wrap myself in cotton wool. I think I was just like lying on the sofa with my feet up for like days, just please implant, please implant, please make yourself comfortable in my womb. And then actually, when we had the first round of IVF, it was only you know, a few days into the process. When I woke up one morning, looked out the window to see a tower burning. Grenfell tower fire. Witnessing the burning of Grenfell was one of the most traumatic things I think a human could ever witness. I remember standing at the foot of the tower, and the debris just blowing down to my feet, like charred bits of building that just burned and broken away from the Tarot was falling down and just landing at my feet. And, you know, we were both so emotionally distressed witnessing that, that I was like, this random IVF is not going to work. I was just so emotionally distraught by witnessing such a human tragedy in front of me that I was like, my body’s not going to accept this embryo. I know it’s not. And, you know, just as I expected, a few days later, discovered a bleed. That round didn’t work. I was devastated. Because you really have to put yourself into the emotional headspace of believing it’s going to work. It’s going to work, it’s going to work, I’m going to have this baby, it’s going to implant and then when it doesn’t, you’ve got to try and pick up the pieces of that.

So we decided to go in through another round. But we left it a while because you know, I needed to heal I needed to get over it. It’s not easy on the body. It’s really not easy on the body. I don’t think people understand what physical challenge is to force your body to over produce follicles and eggs and, you know, then the emotional stuff that comes with it. You know, it does take its toll. So if you’ve been through IVF, or if you’re going through IVF I’m sending you so much love. So much love. I know it’s not easy. So once it had some time to heal, we decided to go in again. This time the doctors wanted to try a different protocol. Because the first time they put my ovaries to sleep, they struggled to wake them back up again and struggled to get them to produce in the way that they were expecting. So yeah We agreed with the consultant. And at this time we do things a little bit differently, they weren’t going to shut down my ovaries totally. And we’d see how that goes in terms of results. This time round with egg collection, my body just didn’t respond very well to it, I ended up with really swollen ovaries, I’ve really struggled to come round after the procedure felt really groggy, really sick. And I was just in so much pain, everything felt so tender, it felt really different to the first time yet this time, it just didn’t go so well. We did have better results in terms of embryos. And I’ll never forget, going to have the embryos put back in and they show you the embryos on the screen. And you can see this bunch of cells, and oh, you just feel so attached. And you actually watch the procedure through a little on a screen because they put the camera in and you can see the embryo going up into the womb, and you’re like come on child. Because you know, it just feels like it’s your child at this point. So you’re hoping and praying, I was doing my daily mantras, you know, do my meditations. I even got hypnotized and everything. Honestly, I went all out to try and have this baby. But yeah, just like the last round failed. So did this one. I remember me and came, we’re just having a lazy day, he was teaching me how to play chess. And I was beating him. And I just didn’t feel too good. And I went to the bathroom and saw blood. And yeah, did my pregnancy test and it was negative. So heartbreaking. My second round had failed. And at this point, I was just like, You know what, I think I need to just accept my destiny. I’m just not meant to be the mom that I thought I was going to be all of the money invested to try and make this happen. All of the supplements, all of the self administered needles into my belly and into my bomb, all amounted to nothing. Now that’s a lot for any couple to go through. And some of these things can tear couples apart. But this is the one beautiful thing about my husband and my relationship is that every trial that we’ve been through, every challenge that we go through, it brings us closer, it brings us stronger. In the back of my mind, I still had this niggling voice that I was going to be a mom when I was 36. But now I’m just like, you’re just deluded. Why do you keep having these ideas, and now it’s not going to happen, you need to let go. So I started letting go of that idea. I started adjusting to a child free life, mentally, which was difficult to come to terms with. But I thought I’m just going to be that cool Auntie for everybody. I started visualizing a life of traveling and freedom and just bend in an indulgent on myself and cane. And in the end, you know, I had come around to it had come around to this idea of just doing us. Because all the morning in the world wasn’t going to change our predicament. And I was just done. I was just done with carrying the emotional weight of this journey of trying to be a mom, it was just so painful. I just couldn’t put myself through it anymore. So after that ran failed, we thought you know what, let’s just do the flat. Because we’re in a one bedroom. We were always sort of thinking, Oh, if we have kids, we’re going to have to move out so we won’t bother doing anything. So we’re like, Well, looks like we’re going to be staying here we’re just a couple of two, so we don’t need to move. So we did the bedroom painted it decorated it.

When we were decorating, I found a pregnancy test. Actually, one thing that I didn’t do throughout my fertility journey was just continuously do pregnancy tests. I know some women do. But for me, I’m like, if I’m pregnant, I’m going to find out at some point, paying a fortune on pregnancy tests that are just going to bring around a sense of failure every time it’s negative, just wasn’t appealing to me. So in my head, it was just going to be you know, I just sort of like find out I was pregnant through symptoms and stuff rather than doing pregnancy tests. So anyway, I came across this pregnancy test that was just lying around and I looked at it it was at a date. And I just thought, oh, you know what, let me just shove it in that drawer and carried on doing what I was doing. sort of forgot about it a couple of weeks later, I woke up from a dream with a really strong voice. Like my intuition speaks to me in a voice. And it was like do a pregnancy test do a pregnancy test. And I’m like, Okay, I’ve got pregnancy tests. Yeah, there’s a pregnancy test in the drawer because I put that in there the other day when we were decorating, but it’s out of date. Oh, anyway, let’s just go and do it. So I went into the bathroom, peed on this stick instantly. Two lines showed up. You know, it says you got to wait for a few minutes. This line came up clear as day in an instant. And I was like, What the? And I was like, Nah, it’s out of date. Is that a date? It’s not going to be right. I couldn’t believe it. I was like running about the flat like a headless chicken at like seven o’clock in the morning. canes in a deep sleep. I poked him. I just did a pregnancy test is positive. He’s like, what? And I’m just like, Oh, what is that? Anyway, so I thought, You know what, I need to go to the shop. So I got dressed, legged it down to Sainsbury’s to buy a pregnancy test on the way down there. I’m like, Mom, I had a voice in my head saying do a pregnancy test. And I did a pregnancy test and it says it’s positive. But I mean, it’s out of date. So I don’t think it’s right. So I’m just gonna go should you better go down the shop that and get a new pregnancy test. So I went to Sainsbury’s, I’m looking and can’t see any pregnancy tests on the shelf, it’s empty. Got on my tippy toes with my five foot nine self. What did I see at the back, one left, picked it up pack of three, legged it back home, peed on one stick two lines, peed on a second stick two lines, peed on the next stick to lines, oh my God, I am pregnant. I am pregnant. I am pregnant. But then I was like, I sort of got my head around the idea of not being a mom now like what the hell. So it’s really weird. Because all of this five years of longing, putting my body through hell and back to try and bring a baby forward, I finally got my head into a space where I was content with being childless. And then to find out that you’re going to be a mom again. Trust me, my head was baffled. It took us a good couple of weeks to come to terms with it. It didn’t feel real. And I was so scared of getting my hopes up. So this little intuitive feeling that I had in the back of my mind for years that I was going to be a mom when I was 36. It came true. I wasn’t deluded. My intuition was right. It’s almost like I relaxed. I let go of trying to control outcomes that I can’t control. Because you can’t this sort of stuff is a miracle. The fact that any of us here is miraculous what it takes to get a sperm to meet an egg. And to get that to divide correctly and to form an embryo of the embryo to honestly it is a miracle once you go through the IVF process, you start to realize what a miracle it is. And then we finally started having our appointments with the doctors to tell them that, you know, we have managed to conceive there like you would be surprised at how many times we hear this. It’s as though finally when you give up on trying to control the outcome, something magical just happens. And I’m not saying that that’s going to be the case for everybody. But it’s funny though, because I remember all the way through the fertility journey, people say just relax, you know, stop trying, and it’ll happen. And I’d be there like, I’m not trying now I’m relaxed.

So unrelaxed, you know, but trying to tell myself, I’m relaxed, I’m relaxed, I relaxed, whilst being super uptight

and stressed. You know, it took for me to truly surrender to a different possibility for my joy to manifest in the way that I wanted it to. I tried to I tried to control a defined outcome. And the universe laughed at me. Quite often in life, we can have very fixed ideas about what we want outcomes to be and what we want things to look like. But the reality is, there’s so many different contributing factors in life that mean, we can’t control all the outcomes that we might like to there has to be a degree of surrender, which is easy for me to say now I’ve had to go through the hard way and learn it, you know, through the challenges. So I guess I’m wondering, you know, you may have been through a similar situation, you might be on your fertility journey. There were a lot of friends that I made on my fertility journey. And it was so difficult. When I eventually did become pregnant. I felt like such a traitor to my friends that were not able to conceive. Because I know what it’s like to get that news that somebody else is pregnant, and this time it was me. And I felt bad about that. But thankfully, almost every person I know now, I think with the exception of perhaps one has gone on to conceive after years and years of their fertility struggles. So I guess I’m wondering, are you meeting resistance in your life? Are there outcomes in your life that you’re too trying to control that are actually beyond your control. And wondering what more can we do to just surrender to the moment a little bit more, just to release ourselves of the burden of trying to control circumstances that are that just beyond us. And if you are on your fertility journey, if you are struggling to conceive, if you do want a child in your life, and it’s just not possible, then I’m just sending you so much love. I’m sending you so much love, because I know how difficult that is. And I just want you to know that I’m thinking of you.

Thank you for listening to this episode of the car power podcast, I think it’s fair to say that women, we really go through it. And that’s why I’m on a mission now to make sure that I can support women in the best way possible. So I’m two years deep into my injury. Now, I am looking to be taking on clients again soon. So going forward, I’m going to be working on a one to one basis with women. Because I really want to help you to be able to live your best lives. And this is one of the beautiful things about the pain and the struggles that I’ve been through is because I’ve learned a lot of lessons along the way. And I think I can add a lot of value and perspective to other women, to help them to uncover some of their unhelpful disruptive patterns that are holding them back. And to just help you to help yourself to live a full and happy life, because I’ve become quite a master of finding joy in the darkness. So I’m a natural problem solver. And before my injury, I was working with men in suits in boardrooms, up and down the country, on their digital marketing strategies. And of course, alongside my brother and our business partner, Danny, we built an award winning digital marketing agency. So I’ve still got all of those skills and experience, they’re not going anywhere. So if you are building a brand, then and you want to speak about how I might be able to help you, you know, there can be some stuff that we can do there. Because my mission now is just to make sure that women are living fulfilled lives, whether that is creating the brands that you wish that you started, you know, five years ago, or whether it’s more deep personal development type stuff. That’s where I really come alive. Because I’ve got so many tools in my toolbox now, for all the years of overcoming the stuff that I’ve been overcome in, as well as with my counseling and counseling skills, qualification. Like I’ve been doing this deep work for 10 years, and I’m ready to help other women elevate themselves as well. Like, what’s the point in sitting on all this knowledge, if I’m not going to bring other women with me to embarking on my counseling qualification was one of the greatest catalysts for my personal transformation. And I’m reaching almost 10 years now since I started that study, and haven’t done anything with it. I’m not an accredited counselor, I didn’t complete my master’s. So this isn’t the therapy that I’m offering. But I’m going to use all of my skills and my tools to help you to work through your unconscious blocks to bring outdated patterns to light to help you to live a resilient and a full happy life. So if you are interested, it would be great to have a call. I’ll be getting the website updated soon. But in the meantime, if you are interested in a no obligation 45 minute call with me to see if there’s something that we can do to help you get unstuck and unlock the next level of your life. Then just drop me an email at info at the curl It’d be great to have a chat. See if we’re a good fit. See if there’s something we can do to help you just elevate your life a little bit. I spent so many years living in the darkness that now I’m in the light. I just want to bring everyone with me. So if you’re ready to do that, get in touch and let’s see what we can do to help you level up your life. girlfriends. I appreciate you coming on this journey with me. In the next episode. As I mentioned earlier, we’re going to be talking about pregnancy and what that was like after five years of longing. Please do come and find us on the socials. You can find me at Zoe dot e dot Fox on Instagram. We’re on Facebook, we’re on Instagram and we’re on Twitter at the curl squad. The buy me a coffee link is buy me a forward slash curl squad. The links will be in the shownotes please do get in touch if this episode resonated. Like I said earlier, you know it really does mean a lot for me to hear your feedback and to see how the podcast is moving you. And yeah, I’m just sending you big, big love from the bottom of my heart. If you’re going through stuff if you’re growing through stuff, we’re in this together. You’ve got this. You’ve absolutely got this big love curlfriend. Peace out, and I’ll catch you next week.

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